By now I’m sure you’ve heard of a proposed bill in Uganda which would authorize the execution of homosexuals. And you thought Prop 8 was bad! Obviously opposed by gay groups, I think that anybody with two brain cells to rub together should be outraged about this legislation that’s actually being taken into serious consideration. Pastor Rick Warren of the Saddleback Church has come under fire for his very own influence – intentional or not – on the matter. Apparently his books “inspired” religious leaders and lawmakers to come up with this bill. It took him a while to come up with a statement, but it’s finally here:
The message is great. But is this just rhetorical propaganda/face-saving PR? I suspect that he’s saying one thing, and doing another “behind closed doors” as he would put it? I hadn’t heard of Rick Warren until the previous election cycle when Barack Obama and John McCain were to debate one another at Warren’s church. Oddly enough, it wasn’t a debate at all but rather an interview scrutinizing each candidate’s political views as they relate to matters of interest to Christians in specific: gays and abortion. It was called the “Purpose-Driven Debate”. The purpose, of course, to put Obama on the hot seat. Unsurprisingly, Obama was selected to be questioned first. I still wonder to this day if McCain was able to watch the first segment of the “debate” and anticipate the questions he’d be asked. Oh, wait – no I don’t! It was fairly obvious. Aaaanyways…
While Rick Warren can talk the good talk, his walk is up for discussion. Rick Warren’s mentor and advisor, a man by the name of C. Peter Wagner, is a part of this controversy as well. As Bruce Wilson of Talk to Action points out in an eye-opening piece, Wagner’s “dominionist” credence of allowing the church to take control over society is worrisome and relevant to what Uganda’s government is trying to do. C. Peter Wagner is the presiding Apostle of the ICA (the International Coalition of Apostles), a network which includes a pool of virulently anti-gay religious leaders, some of which were actively involved in the push for California’s Prop 8 last year. The ink from Prop 8 is still on Rick Warren’s fingertips. In the end, there’s not much evidence to lead us to believe that Warren’s beliefs – on the issue of the Ugandan bill or others – varies at all from this medley of Bible-thumping wackos.
Religious fanatics really crack me up because they try to juxtapose 21st century living with the outdated writings of “religious and political hustlers”, as George Carlin called the authors of “holy scripture” /s. An archaic book written with a primitive mindset should hold no clout in the world today. And even when they try to liberalize, so to speak, the harsh credence of the Testaments, they still end up getting caught by their own Good Book. Technically, homosexuals do deserve the death penalty according to the Bible. So why is Pastor Rick Warren against it (if he really is)? Secular humanism or bust…
The message is great. But is this just rhetorical propaganda/face-saving PR? I suspect that he’s saying one thing, and doing another “behind closed doors” as he would put it? I hadn’t heard of Rick Warren until the previous election cycle when Barack Obama and John McCain were to debate one another at Warren’s church. Oddly enough, it wasn’t a debate at all but rather an interview scrutinizing each candidate’s political views as they relate to matters of interest to Christians in specific: gays and abortion. It was called the “Purpose-Driven Debate”. The purpose, of course, to put Obama on the hot seat. Unsurprisingly, Obama was selected to be questioned first. I still wonder to this day if McCain was able to watch the first segment of the “debate” and anticipate the questions he’d be asked. Oh, wait – no I don’t! It was fairly obvious. Aaaanyways…
While Rick Warren can talk the good talk, his walk is up for discussion. Rick Warren’s mentor and advisor, a man by the name of C. Peter Wagner, is a part of this controversy as well. As Bruce Wilson of Talk to Action points out in an eye-opening piece, Wagner’s “dominionist” credence of allowing the church to take control over society is worrisome and relevant to what Uganda’s government is trying to do. C. Peter Wagner is the presiding Apostle of the ICA (the International Coalition of Apostles), a network which includes a pool of virulently anti-gay religious leaders, some of which were actively involved in the push for California’s Prop 8 last year. The ink from Prop 8 is still on Rick Warren’s fingertips. In the end, there’s not much evidence to lead us to believe that Warren’s beliefs – on the issue of the Ugandan bill or others – varies at all from this medley of Bible-thumping wackos.
Religious fanatics really crack me up because they try to juxtapose 21st century living with the outdated writings of “religious and political hustlers”, as George Carlin called the authors of “holy scripture” /s. An archaic book written with a primitive mindset should hold no clout in the world today. And even when they try to liberalize, so to speak, the harsh credence of the Testaments, they still end up getting caught by their own Good Book. Technically, homosexuals do deserve the death penalty according to the Bible. So why is Pastor Rick Warren against it (if he really is)? Secular humanism or bust…
That's quite a leap of logic you're claiming there, buddy: Rick Warren was pro-Prop. 8 so he must also be pro-Gay Execution Bill.
ReplyDeleteThe Right used a similar "dangerous by association" tactic with Obama and Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, and Louis Farrakhan last year... Why the fuck are you using the same method now?
Not a leap of logic at all. This is damage control.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between Obama and Wright is not the same as Warren and Wagner. Obama was a parishioner to Wright's church. Wagner and Warren are essentially coworkers.
Not supporting gay marriage is a completely different ballpark from supporting gay imprisonment/execution. I'm sure Warren would've gone the Fred Phelps route long ago if he truly believed in ideas like those in the proposed Ugandan bill.
ReplyDeleteNot that I'm necessarily supporting Rick Warren or the pro-Prop. 8 crowd here; I'm just trying to call out bullshit demonization when I see it. (the other day, Limbaugh wondered aloud if Obama was pro-Ugandan Bill since he had not yet spoken out against it — you're not too far off from the same tactic here)
You seem to think Rick Warren is some sort of friend to the gay community. I'm surprised, knowing your cynical nature, that you've apparently bought Warren's telecasted garbage. Let's remember the King quote:
ReplyDelete"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
Rick Warren doesn't support homosexuality, obviously... Does that mean he supports the extermination of gays? Hell, I don't really support Christianity, but does that mean I think all Christians should be imprisoned or executed? It's obvious he's no friend of the gay "lifestyle" (as he likely sees it to be) but that doesn't mean he wants them all beheaded.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the Talk 2 Action piece you cite prominently invokes a video comparing Rick Warren to Hitler... Such a comparison is a classic smear technique of a person (be they Right or Left) stretching the truth in an attempt to completely demonize someone they disagree with. (Truth: Rick Warren supported Prop. 8 - Stretched Truth: Rick Warren supports the Ugandan gay prison/execution bill)
Who's the one using a leap in logic? I didn't cite the Hitler video you speak of (which I've never seen nor will I even bother looking for). Just because I cite one article doesn't mean I support some video that someone else on the website posted...
ReplyDeleteI didn't necessarily say Warren SUPPORTS the bill and actively supports the execution of gays. But as Ricky Ricardo would say, he's got some 'splainin' to do about his peer Wagner and his active roll in this bill. Let's not forget that the Ugandan leaders have USED WARREN'S BOOK AS THE BASIS/INSPIRATION FOR THEIR BILL < pay attention.
After it's all said and done, I doubt that the Ugandan bill will even be passed.
This ought to sum up the underlying message in my post:
http://tinyurl.com/warrenprop8
Blind men see error only in others. Lost men H8 God. Peace to you this season Ivan, still checking HHIR sometimes.
ReplyDeleteseriously ivan, you become more of a leech and hypocrit everyday, it's not so bad to be human. but don't deny your nature or you look like a manipulative asshole. you might as well embrace your tendencys.
ReplyDeleteyou homos?fagots that an insult to our country and institution... look how you messed our flag...luck that you far....we couls excute you....foolish retards fucking themselves in dirty ass, should eat the shit
ReplyDelete