Some things I just don't get...
Our ol' pal Kevin Nottingham of This Is Hip Hop hit me up today regarding a message he received by none other than Madlib. The message was written in response to Kevin's recent release of his (totally awesome) 'Madvillain - Madvillainy' sample set. Simply put: Madlib wanted the set to be taken down from Kev's site, download link and all. Kevin politely obliged. [Read more about it here!]
Now here's the question and matter at hand (which Kevin asked his readers as well): Is the act of compiling samples used on albums harmful to Hip-Hop? Our (Kev and I) reasoning and motivation is, quite simply, that we're just trying to learn about the artform (of sampling in particular) and spread it forth for everyone who shares our interests in this great music, culture and lifestyle we call Hip-Hop. Personally, I get a rush seeking out samples from some of my favorite emcees. But Madlib's response to this was the following: "Pages like this on the internet are no help at all to people like Doom, Madlib, and those that work with them."
Let's reason this one out, shall we? So let's assume that sites that delineate or list samples used on albums is harmful to Hip-Hop. How is this any different from the liner notes of the actual albums themselves? Liner notes often come along with a full or at least partial list of all the songs that were sampled or interpolated for the corresponding Hip-Hop record. Surely this isn't harming Hip-Hop. Right? Onward, we've got sites such as The Breaks, Discogs and Wikipedia; all of which supply an enormous wealth of sample info (many of which are used as sources for our very own sample sets). So the new question arises: Are the aforementioned sites (The Breaks, Discogs, Wikipedia) also harmful to Hip-Hop? Quite frankly, I think it'd be pretty bizarre to make that argument.
Essentially, Kevin and I are simply collecting the information and music, and compiling them into one enveloped and enjoyable package for y'all to dig in to and have fun with. It's all for the love of Hip-Hop, as well as the various genres and styles which emcees and producers alike draw their inspirations from. Hip-Hop wouldn't be what it is without the James Browns, Gil Scott-Herons and Bob James' of the world (and that's just scratching the surface). The driving force for our sample sets is to further highlight their contributions to Hip-Hop, in nuanced, album-by-album format.
The argument that Kevin and I are somehow belittling the great talents of producers such as Madlib and countless others by "exposing" their sources to the world and therefore hurting their ability to continue to make great music is, quite frankly, preposterous. Everybody knows that Kanye West sampled Chaka Khan's 'Through the Fire' on 'Ye's similarly-titled 'Through the Wire'. Does that make him any less of a producer? Absolutely not! Is Puffy any less of a producer because he sampled recognizable hits from the '80's? No! Not at all! We appreciate what these guys have done for Hip-Hop. Highlighting their efforts and showcasing their inspirations comes from our admiration of their achievements. No more, no less.
A couple weeks back, I got the idea to compile all the songs that influenced Madlib's jazzy 'Shades of Blue'. I was surprised to find out that there was in fact a sample collection set released officially by Blue Note Records. 'Untinted: Sources for Madlib's Shades of Blue', as it's called, was just that: The sources for all the tracks that were sampled, interpolated and covered on Madlib's 2003 album. Cool, I thought: I don't have to go for this one... it's been done. So here's a new question: How is that set any different from the set that Kevin prepared? Sure, Kevin and I don't have the c0pyr1ght on this music, but neither does Madlib. I can assure you that Madlib does not own the rights to Ronnie Foster's 'Mystic Brew', Horace Silver's 'Peace' or any other track flipped on 'Shades of Blue'. But back to the original premise: Madlib said that what Kevin did was harmful to artists such as himself, and overall detrimental to Hip-Hop as a whole. So how is the Blue Note release any different, aside from the fact that it was released by a label? None whatsoever! I smell a bit of hypocrisy... Just sayin'...
Now here's another issue which I found to be quite interesting. I was on Wikipedia about a month ago, scanning around for sample sets I'd like to complete in the (near) future. As I often do when I'm flipping through the web, I saved the interesting sites in my Bookmarks folder. At the moment, I've got over 50 albums in my 'Sample Sets' folder of sample compilations I aspire to complete. One of these was Madvillainy (Kevin beat me to the punch). When I checked it out back in February, it contained the full sample listing, just as Kevin presented it in his great post. Since then, the sample information has been wiped clean... completely! Thankfully however, Wikipedia maintains a function which allows you to check past versions of articles. Below I've got a screenshot of the version of the Madvillainy article from two weeks back with the full sample information (on the left side) as well as a screenshot of the current article, devoid of the sample listing (on the right side). Click the pictures to enlarge them:
Our ol' pal Kevin Nottingham of This Is Hip Hop hit me up today regarding a message he received by none other than Madlib. The message was written in response to Kevin's recent release of his (totally awesome) 'Madvillain - Madvillainy' sample set. Simply put: Madlib wanted the set to be taken down from Kev's site, download link and all. Kevin politely obliged. [Read more about it here!]
Now here's the question and matter at hand (which Kevin asked his readers as well): Is the act of compiling samples used on albums harmful to Hip-Hop? Our (Kev and I) reasoning and motivation is, quite simply, that we're just trying to learn about the artform (of sampling in particular) and spread it forth for everyone who shares our interests in this great music, culture and lifestyle we call Hip-Hop. Personally, I get a rush seeking out samples from some of my favorite emcees. But Madlib's response to this was the following: "Pages like this on the internet are no help at all to people like Doom, Madlib, and those that work with them."
Let's reason this one out, shall we? So let's assume that sites that delineate or list samples used on albums is harmful to Hip-Hop. How is this any different from the liner notes of the actual albums themselves? Liner notes often come along with a full or at least partial list of all the songs that were sampled or interpolated for the corresponding Hip-Hop record. Surely this isn't harming Hip-Hop. Right? Onward, we've got sites such as The Breaks, Discogs and Wikipedia; all of which supply an enormous wealth of sample info (many of which are used as sources for our very own sample sets). So the new question arises: Are the aforementioned sites (The Breaks, Discogs, Wikipedia) also harmful to Hip-Hop? Quite frankly, I think it'd be pretty bizarre to make that argument.
Essentially, Kevin and I are simply collecting the information and music, and compiling them into one enveloped and enjoyable package for y'all to dig in to and have fun with. It's all for the love of Hip-Hop, as well as the various genres and styles which emcees and producers alike draw their inspirations from. Hip-Hop wouldn't be what it is without the James Browns, Gil Scott-Herons and Bob James' of the world (and that's just scratching the surface). The driving force for our sample sets is to further highlight their contributions to Hip-Hop, in nuanced, album-by-album format.
The argument that Kevin and I are somehow belittling the great talents of producers such as Madlib and countless others by "exposing" their sources to the world and therefore hurting their ability to continue to make great music is, quite frankly, preposterous. Everybody knows that Kanye West sampled Chaka Khan's 'Through the Fire' on 'Ye's similarly-titled 'Through the Wire'. Does that make him any less of a producer? Absolutely not! Is Puffy any less of a producer because he sampled recognizable hits from the '80's? No! Not at all! We appreciate what these guys have done for Hip-Hop. Highlighting their efforts and showcasing their inspirations comes from our admiration of their achievements. No more, no less.
A couple weeks back, I got the idea to compile all the songs that influenced Madlib's jazzy 'Shades of Blue'. I was surprised to find out that there was in fact a sample collection set released officially by Blue Note Records. 'Untinted: Sources for Madlib's Shades of Blue', as it's called, was just that: The sources for all the tracks that were sampled, interpolated and covered on Madlib's 2003 album. Cool, I thought: I don't have to go for this one... it's been done. So here's a new question: How is that set any different from the set that Kevin prepared? Sure, Kevin and I don't have the c0pyr1ght on this music, but neither does Madlib. I can assure you that Madlib does not own the rights to Ronnie Foster's 'Mystic Brew', Horace Silver's 'Peace' or any other track flipped on 'Shades of Blue'. But back to the original premise: Madlib said that what Kevin did was harmful to artists such as himself, and overall detrimental to Hip-Hop as a whole. So how is the Blue Note release any different, aside from the fact that it was released by a label? None whatsoever! I smell a bit of hypocrisy... Just sayin'...
Now here's another issue which I found to be quite interesting. I was on Wikipedia about a month ago, scanning around for sample sets I'd like to complete in the (near) future. As I often do when I'm flipping through the web, I saved the interesting sites in my Bookmarks folder. At the moment, I've got over 50 albums in my 'Sample Sets' folder of sample compilations I aspire to complete. One of these was Madvillainy (Kevin beat me to the punch). When I checked it out back in February, it contained the full sample listing, just as Kevin presented it in his great post. Since then, the sample information has been wiped clean... completely! Thankfully however, Wikipedia maintains a function which allows you to check past versions of articles. Below I've got a screenshot of the version of the Madvillainy article from two weeks back with the full sample information (on the left side) as well as a screenshot of the current article, devoid of the sample listing (on the right side). Click the pictures to enlarge them:
What can I say? I like investigating... I just find it odd that the samples were recently wiped out from Wikipedia as recently as Kevin was told to shut down his set. Of course, this leads to a greater issue at hand: the accessibility of information on the internet. More specifically, it touches on the issue of information control. Under a totalitarian, fascist and paranoid rule of law, I'd understand. But we're just looking for Hip-Hop samples man... C'mon now...
I'd like to conclude this op-ed piece by affirming my love for all the work that Madlib puts in. Few producers match his musical IQ, and I've gotten hooked into his beat tapes, soundtracks and Mind Fusion mixes. We love the music that he crafts and we ask that he continue on. But we should make one thing perfectly clear: sample clearance is important. If you're already an established figure in the music scene, it should be expected that all the samples on your albums should be cleared or otherwise not used. The original artists deserve their shine as well. If someone were to make a beat using a sample from another artist, wouldn't you expect that person to be honest enough to admit that he or she used someone else's original work as their source of inspiration? I certainly would! So with that said, I feel that the sets that Kevin and I come up with are healthy for Hip-Hop. They take us back to a time where the appreciation for funk, jazz, soul, rock, reggae, electronic, house, blues (and everything in between) records mattered to Hip-Hop.
I expect to hear some positive as well as negative responses to this post. Please: Feel free to be as brutally honest as you possibly can. I really wanna hear what you think about this issue. Let's try to keep this civil and Socratic though. Aight?
- Ivan
EDIT: READ MY FOLLOW-UP ARTICLE "'Can Ya Dig It'? ... No, Seriously: Can You?" HERE!
I'd like to conclude this op-ed piece by affirming my love for all the work that Madlib puts in. Few producers match his musical IQ, and I've gotten hooked into his beat tapes, soundtracks and Mind Fusion mixes. We love the music that he crafts and we ask that he continue on. But we should make one thing perfectly clear: sample clearance is important. If you're already an established figure in the music scene, it should be expected that all the samples on your albums should be cleared or otherwise not used. The original artists deserve their shine as well. If someone were to make a beat using a sample from another artist, wouldn't you expect that person to be honest enough to admit that he or she used someone else's original work as their source of inspiration? I certainly would! So with that said, I feel that the sets that Kevin and I come up with are healthy for Hip-Hop. They take us back to a time where the appreciation for funk, jazz, soul, rock, reggae, electronic, house, blues (and everything in between) records mattered to Hip-Hop.
I expect to hear some positive as well as negative responses to this post. Please: Feel free to be as brutally honest as you possibly can. I really wanna hear what you think about this issue. Let's try to keep this civil and Socratic though. Aight?
- Ivan
EDIT: READ MY FOLLOW-UP ARTICLE "'Can Ya Dig It'? ... No, Seriously: Can You?" HERE!
79 comments:
I was thinking this was a rather mundane example of a proud artist complaining, but when I saw the Wikipedia removals, that just took it to another level.
Attempting to control the dissemination of information like that is basically the opposite of rap.
I understand that he is trying to protect himself from copyright lawsuits, but really, that is just a risk he has to take - everyone knows you can get sued for sampling something, it's just unlikely (not worth it for the plaintiff) unless you have a hit.
i'm pretty sure that Madlib has no legal right to demand that what he sampled would be taken off(of course that Kevin was polite enough and so he should have been). I happen to think that it's not only fun and interesting to listen to the samples, it's also important to hip hop. if you don't know your past, your present is unclear and your future is nothing but vague. I learned a lot from listening to your sample posts and got to know some of the most amazing things i ever listend to. it only made me appreciate more the emcee's and the producers involved (to which you alwys give credit!)
music should be spread around. i can't wait for your Jurassic 5 samples...i'll keep visiting for as long as you'll continue. I'd like to use this comment to thank you for this blog. i'm a regular visitor for some months now and i really think i learned many many things.
Seffy Kotz, Tel-aviv Israel\Zion
I hope you guys keep releasing these sample sets as they only teach us more about hip hop and the art of sampling. Just the fact that so many producers have participated in Kevin's contest shows that many people are indeed intrigued by these sets and want to better their own skills.
But all in all, thanks for the response and continued support! We do it for you guys!
Peace and thanks,
I was looking forward to listening to his India Beat Konducta series lol
But I still feel his statement is completely false...keep doing your thing guys
Well, they only listed the samples they were required to by law - Madlib would probably like to keep all those secret as well if he could.
But, yeah, he's just being a dork - I could see wanting to keep a hot sample you found a secret BEFORE you had a chance to use it on a released record... but afterwards, it's all there to be found by anyone with ears.
In fact I was about to ask you to post the tacklist for Mind Fusion 3(if you can), I searched and searched and failed dismally!!
Keep up theose sample lists going.
You state that you believe all samples should be cleared, but if that was the case 90% of the great underground albums wouldnt exist.
Whilst your hobby of collecting all the samples from albums is a good idea for yourselves and obviously many listeners it isnt for the artists themselves (unless the samples have been cleared) therefore in a tumbling record industry surely it is better to support the artists in whatever way neccesary.
peace.
However... since making beats is a hobby of mine, I really enjoy discovering original samples. So keep up the good work and unless an artists disagrees with the "sample sets"... keep em coming!
Thanks for the classics Madlib, keep those coming too!
the only thing i disagree with is your comment on the Shades Of Blue sources being issued; that's just a manner of loochie. Madlib did Shades of Blue for Blue Note, and they've done compilations in the past with the tracks that have been sampled before, mainly for profit. it was a good tie in to his lackluster release, but i found gems on that release as well. I don't think he had any say in that one, once his blue note check cleared lol.
In any case, I feel a lil love for Madlib being tainted with this one.
I think Madlib is a great producer and musician, but his complaints seem petty and somewhat tight-assed.
Secrecy is not the key to making good music. creativity IS.
Great post, great blog.
Peace.
This article confirms my feelings and perception of him even more. I agree with most who believe he fears issues with sample clearances.
Whatever!
It's exciting to know where things come from, where they originate.
That vocal trill on the hook of a Kanye song, the horns on a classic Pete Rock production...knowing where they came from makes me appreciate the producer more.
And having the connection drawn from the beat to the sample source makes me appreciate the work of the artist being sampled as well.
I LOVE Madlib, but we should realize someone like him, who doesn't have the budget of a Just Blaze or Kanye, can't afford to clear most of the samples he uses.
After Biz Markie's lawsuits, the rules have changed.
Go read G from GRANDGOOD's post for further meditation on that.
I'm glad our site can generate such discussion, we do like to hear your (well-thought out) opinions.
So, peace to the nation, the people that represent, and those cats that never bug out to the extreme
Yo, If word is bond
then Q is gone
Concerning the music, I really enjoy listening to the older music. In fact, listening to "The Letter" by Al Green is almost preferable to "Long Kiss Goodnight." I undoubtedly listen to "Come Live with Me more frequently than "Wanna Get to Know You." I also wasn't alive during this period, so the music, which the DJs use, doesn't necessarily jump out at me. Why should I be forced to forego the entitlement to listen to great music?
I am forgoing this entitlement, because my career path is not DJ. I don't have time to track down all the different samples used by the DJs. This is why your site so creative and helpful.
The DJs are "magicians," to an extent, but sometimes pulling the curtain back is better for the audience as a whole. I use "to an extent," because there is no deception involved in their practice, unlike magicians. With consideration to that argument, the analogy is not apt.
To close with a reiteration a point already presented, if Madlib wanted you to remove the music out of a moral opposition to stealing music from the original creators, then I would support his argument. It makes sense – essentially, don’t steal from the originators who created this music. However, to say that “pages like this on the internet are no help at all to people like Doom, Madlib, and those that work with them,” is complete self-serving bs, which deserves limited consideration.
Keep doing your thing Ivan.
But if that's how you feel, you're entitled to your opinion, certainly.
Snitching seems to be word most invoked in terms of people revealing samples.
Lib shouldn't be so paranoid, because he's really in a world of his own as a producer. So what if I know what/who he sampled? It doesn't detract from his production prowess, if you ask me.
I wnt be doing that shit on my blog anymore
However, for the most part most of the sample sets Ivan puts out are already cleared samples so its not necessarily illegal to put it out.
My assumption is either ego (honestly, all Madlib's got going for him are "weird" samples, he's gotta protect them) or a fear of the information being so out in the open that it would indeed, lead to people suing him for unlicensed samples; hence, the Wiki changes retain the probably-had-to-be-clear 'Accordion' sample
NO ONE WANTS SOMEONE EXPOSING THEM FOR THE UNCLEARED SAMPLES ON THEIR RECORDS. period.
thats why he wants the list down, thats why they edited the wikipedia page. its not about hypocrisy, its not about the idea of compiling sample sets. madlib is a sample based producer and if he were to have to account for all the samples he used he would have some serious money to dole out. thats why the artists that work with him would suffer, the label would suffer and his ability to make music in the way he wants to would end.
KEEP (real) HIP HOP ALIVE!
midvillain is clearly in the wrong. if there weren't people like us who essentially provide a bridge between the old and the new, people would just look at the liner notes in cd's and get the songs from limewire or something. . . you can't stop the quest for knowledge!
-Jason
Po' Safe Beatsss
-Jason@PSB
Don't start with terms like 'effort' etc. without realizing the fact that all music before 1990 had to get recorded with great effort etcetc. A lot of man/woman hours, studio equipment the works.. Here comes a guy with a sampler, smokes a spliff and chops up a brilliant track in 2 hours.. Cool, but in terms of effort etc, props should STILL go to the original artist(s).. At least a little..
Oh. ML if you read this, get smarter, make arrangments with the original artist(s) and put out a disc with the originals as well.. Cuts on both sides if you do it right..
Pieter
Right..exactly.
Sample sets are cool but cats gotta respect the game. Dont blow up somebody's spot because you found where sombody got there beats "researching" on the internet! I would respect these cats more if they actually spent time getting dusty. Not to say cats arent but the web makes it to easy to find shit when before you would dig for months for that one piece! I love finding peoples samples on records just as much as the next, but I would prefer folks just play the wax instead of naming the originals.
We cant have it both ways because if every "fan" posts everybody's samples when the majority are uncleared and your favorite rapper/producer gets sued, guess what happens? NOBODY WILL EVER SAMPLE EVER AGAIN! After that this hip hop shit will sound wacker than ever.
i remember back in the day when the dj used to play classics they would have the label on the records blacked out so cats wouldnt bite there shit. nowadays everybody is biting each other with no respect for the old school laws.
like man primo said years ago
"you know how that go... stop doin that yall violating.... straight up and down."
Second, For those that are looking for an interesting sample set, check out the latest post on my blog Eclectic Grooves.
http://eclectic-grooves.blogspot.com
Third, I agree that sampling is an art form and that hip-hop artists should be clearing all of the samples that they use. However, sampling masterpieces like Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation... and Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique would not have existed if this were the case. I've got to imagine that clearing a sample for a single song is not cheap. If you take into account that Paul's Boutique has over 100 samples on the entire record, that translates into a huge sum of money. I'm not sure about the total number of samples on It Takes a Nation.. but it isn't too far from 100.
If the artist is high profile like Parliament Funkadelic , James Brown or Sly and the Family Stone, the price tag for clearing samples is most likely even higher. I believe that's why it makes sense for beat-diggers to search out some of the most obscure stuff out there to avoid sample clearances. In the case of Madlib, he uses some high-profile artists such as Frank Zappa and Stevie Wonder, but he mainly samples obscurities such as Dadelus, Lew Howard and the All-Stars. By sampling rare or obscure records that no one has heard of, producers can get away with not clearing the samples.
Rappers and producers that don't clear their samples know that they are taking a risk, but they still do it. If they didn't take the risk, we wouldn't have the amazing records that have been created within the past two decades.
Herein lies the dilemma: We want the records to be produced with dope samples, but the producers can't afford to make the records we want to hear unless they avoid clearing the samples.
I don't fault Madlib or think that he's a bad person. In fact, we don't even know for sure who the person is behind the myspace message sent to Kevin. However, I feel that if it was a legitimate request, it would have come directly from the label. Anyway, that's my two cents, and maybe a little more.
Cheers, Kevin
Paraphrasing something I heard Trane (John Coltrane), say in an interview in adifferent yet similar context "Some will get it and understand and others will go their whole lives without getting it." Doesn't make these people bad people or less than those that get it. We all can't get everything...
So here are just some random thoughts that passed through my mind after reading this...
PRIMO SAID IT ALL ON THE MOMENT OF TRUTH ALBUM. If that's not good enough for you guys and if Madlib's request is not good enough for you than dare I call ya'll arrogant.
They are the creators and inovators, nuff said. End of discussion in my book. I mean that's how I was raised.
This is a cultural thing and certain traditions are handed down in certain ways to maintain the integrity and vitality of the culture. If you think by sharing the samples that these producers "DUG OUT THE CREATES THEMSELVES" is keeping the art alive than again I call that arrogance of the highest calliber. Not only is it arrogant but; it is also a distortion of the scope, utility, and (not to mention), one's own position in respect to the culture.
You wanna help the culture, go make some ill beats. Dilla, Madlib, Thes One, etc. don't sit arround making sample sets--they make dope ass beats.
You wanna learn how to make beats, listen to beats and upon repeated listens you will start to "get" certain things. If you want more information go holla at these cats or cats in your local area who make beats.
Or you can do it this way. But again as I said in a previous paragraph this culture you want so desperately want to be down with comes with it's own traditions (including ways of communicating as well as passing along information). This is not the way it's done fam straight up! It's just that simple. That's not to say you can't do it this way--if you want. That's your choice. But don't be expecting to get props and don't expect to get credit in certain circles.
The new comers to the net will love you, the tools, the wannabee's etc. but you are not legitimizing yourself in the culture by those who matter.
You are Souljah Boying it. You are using technology to usurp certain traditions, certain guidelines (consciously or unconsciously), and yea you can get some fame or notoriety out of it but at the end of the day if cats like Primo and Madlib ain't really feelin' or respectin' what your doing, you gotta start asking yourself what it is that I'm doing???
You actually might be doing something that is not in fact what you think you are doing. Again, that's cool, but I ask you aganin to please start to consider the reality of your own subjective position in relation this thing called "Hip Hop" as those people (the creators and inovators), know it; not how you would like it to be or how you have found your new niche of what you think is WITHIN that culture.
At the end of the day jus stop being a tool...
Ivan I'm actually surprised at you. I thoroughly enjoy your blog but, I think your on the wrong side of this argument and the fact that you're trying to rationalize out what is simply wrong is really a shame. As if cats who don't even know who Madlib is have any clout or say in this discussion. To open it up in that manner to those who by their own admission( or displayed ignorance), don't know a gotdamn thing about Hip Hop Culture is just silly.
Hip Hop is at paradigmatic crossroads and the proof is in this blogspost and subsequent comments. The culture (or as it appears on the web), is more often than not left in the hands of folks who hold the similar position (and relationship), that the jazz critic of a half century or so ago held to the musicians and music he was critiquing.
That's not really where ya wanna be homie. That's not the position anyone would aspire to be in but rather the position they are delegated too because of power, ignorance, and sheer shortsightedness.
I like the blog tho fam. I don't mean any disrespect to you and your's or to discourage you and your's from doing your thang but I gotta keep it real with ya...
PEACE,
August Fanon
DestroyAllLines
But I do appreciate your comment, and I've taken new measures in ensuring that this no longer remains a "controversy". FAQ #1 is right here:
http://hiphopisread.blogspot.com/2008/12/sample-sets-frequently-asked-question-1.html
In the coming weeks and months, I'll be answering more FAQs, and providing ways to keep these sample sets "on the low".
Finally: Although I love Premo, his beats (etc.), just 'cause he says something, doesn't make it the Gospel.
But above all, you are contributing to the destruction of one of the original artforms of hip hop and that is crate digging. That, much like freestyling is becoming a lost art. Some are too young to understand this, so they don't know any better. I was born before you could walk into the local record store and buy a rap album. They wouldn't have known what it was when you asked either. My first exposure to hip hop was a block party recording by my uncle when I was 3 or 4 years old and I've been hooked ever since.
I understand there is good that can come from this site and I understand the positives, and in my opinion, they outweigh the negatives. Well for me. For the artist, maybe not though. Downloading albums on the internet outweigh the negatives for me too, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect the artist negatively. Just understand that what you are doing can and does have the ability to negatively impact another person and stop the facade that you can't possibly be hurting anyone.
But above all, you are contributing to the destruction of one of the original artforms of hip hop and that is crate digging. That, much like freestyling is becoming a lost art. Some are too young to understand this, so they don't know any better. I was born before you could walk into the local record store and buy a rap album. They wouldn't have known what it was when you asked either. My first exposure to hip hop was a block party recording by my uncle when I was 3 or 4 years old and I've been hooked ever since.
I understand there is good that can come from this site and I understand the positives, and in my opinion, they outweigh the negatives. Well for me. For the artist, maybe not though. Downloading albums on the internet outweigh the negatives for me too, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect the artist negatively. Just understand that what you are doing can and does have the ability to negatively impact another person and stop the facade that you can't possibly be hurting anyone.
These sample sets, exposing EVERY SAMPLE in the songs are a violation, period.
Really who gives a fuck about that kind of person?? I care more about an artist being able to continue making dope music WAY more than some lame dude's private record collection--which, in my opinion, is a complete waste if it isn't in the hands of a DOPE beatmaker/producer anyways.
I love getting to listen to the original samples/breaks that birthed dope beats, but I don't want my favorite beatmakers getting into financially-crippling lawsuits. I remember an interview with Dilla where he says he started getting more into keyboards BECAUSE of sample clearance issues. For me personally, my most favorite Dilla beats were the ones where his sample usage was prevalent in the beat.
Now why the hell would you want to put that same situation upon dope sample-based producers? There were enough of those clearance problems BEFORE the advent of sample-set blogs and whatnot already anyway.
Here's a suggestion: why dont you sample set uploaders just post shit WITHOUT references to who used the sample?
That way, muthafuckers who REALLY know what's up will be able to know who used what. Sure, that might cut down on the connections made by listeners of samples to look into hip hop songs they might not know about, but hey, thats what hip hop DJ's and promotions are for.
About the "censorship" of references by sampling artists themselves seen by a few people as being "totalitarian", I fuckin laughed. Like I said: I give a shit more about the continuation of dope hip hop WAY more than some blog "celebrity"s record collection.
Fuck your egos. Do some of YOUR OWN actual digging--whether it be through dusty crates or through production credits. Long live dope Hip Hop. PEACE
People are always intrigued to discover how a song or album was created to gauge the artist skill. Thats why other genres have guides to musical licks & tabs. A sample compilation is the hip hop equivalent of guitar tab.
Madlibs a multinstrumentalist, He could have easily replayed many samples & his madvillain stuff would still sound crazy. Like his YNT albums were with higher quality control
Portishead,Daptone,amy winehouse etc have already proven its not that to hard to remake that dusty lo fi retro sound.
If you sample others to produce music for profit you must give credit .These anonymous people have indirectly contributed to your fame,sound, kudos & wealth & its arrogant & selfish to deny it.
Madlib is a smart dude, he probably approaches the labels such as Bluenote, groovemerchant and other Cti and ask them to dedicate an album using samples from their back catalogue, so he don t have to worry with the sample clearance.It s good for him and good for the label as they can have 2 releases while taking advantage of Madlib's notoriety to market a new compilation..
The difference with releasing the samples on internet is that the bloggers can not be sure if the samples are cleared!!!
On the matter of information control, it tottally normal , in my opinion, for a samplist not to allow people to make the origins of his samples public.Back in the days of Djing, they use to cover the labels of their vynils;now that s what i call giving value to music!!!
The real problem is the major corporations and greedy publishers who make it impossible for independant producer to pay the huge sample clearance fees..that what really sucks...
also, i completely agree on the fact that original artists should get the credit they diserve and get paid...but the reality is that paying sample clearance fee does not pay the artists but the publishers and lawyers involved in the process...
The loss of free information on the net is a bit scary theses days, in the Uk a lot of youtube stuff has been taken away..
I feel that it s too late to do this kind of actions: it s like telling the people 'ok, so you all have free access to this wonderful library, go and educated yourselves and express yourselves !' and then burning half of the ressourc available...weird...
i don t know where this is going ,but it sure is gonna change!!!
There are a few striking things with the way labels and publihsers are trying to control music :
I mean what's the point of taking away music from youtube when it is possible to download the music for free anyway???
It's not like someone is going to record the audio comming out of youtube to play on his ipod or to sample it!?i am refering to a new law in that started not long ago in the uK.
Very frustrating flippin law..
By the way , i think the idea mentionned above of not mentionning the credits of the sample set could be a good idea..or at least checking if the samples are cleared by loooking at the credits on the album...
We gotta keep the sample based music alive!!!!
http://www.goodcopybadcopy.net/
http://www3.nfb.ca/webextension/rip-a-remix-manifesto/?film=12
They really are a shady bunch over there, this is the type of practice that is killing what Hip Hop is meant to be about, I want no part of any of that.
Never buying Madlib again (I'll buy OH NO just to spite him). For fuck's sake! He doesn't even OWN the samples.
Ha ha ha X 2 I thought he didn't even own a computer! The mail you received is probably by some Stones Throw goon/employee paid by Peanut Butter Wolf to hunt and delete any youtube video featuring a song from one their albums. Yet they whine like bitches when somebody post the samples you can find in their albums. Hypocritical isn't it ?
Fuck those guys
- Magpen
this guy knows whats up
I think some of you guys are missing it..
maybe madlib was pussyfooting around the subject, but clearly he doesn't want to get sued!! im surprised so many of you didn't consider that!
Bridgeport and Westbound music brought a lawsuit about a decade ago about samples for which they had not been paid. The judge determined that ANY sample, no matter how small or hidden, has to be cleared before it can be used legally. Furthermore, not only does the label have to give consent, but the publisher (usually the original artist) has to give consent. Now if you think any sample musician can track down every artist they have sampled and get their personal consent, much less afford to pay the thousands of dollars PER SAMPLE that it would cost, you are wrong. There are two realistic options for an underground producer 1.use the sample, un-cleared, and hope that no one puts a sample set or sample-related youtube or Wikipedia comment on the internet or 2. quit sampling and start using a synthesizer.
Heads have always tried to figure out what people are sampling, but they shared that information with other hip hop heads; they didn't post it on the internet for the whole world to see. What I am saying is the internet is ruining sampling because of the people who bust out producers in a public forum that anyone can find by merely doing a google search. The other thing I'm saying is that you shouldn't be mad at producers for not getting sample clearance and giving credits. It would be far to expensive to clear all the samples on a sample-based underground hip hop album... and if they give credits without clearing the samples they will get caught and sued for copyright infringement.
It's cool that you guys love the music and want to learn about it, but keep it off the internet, especially if you want people to keep making the music.
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